21.08.2008
Just over a week from now DR will be flying to Portugal for the international launch of the Twingo 133, and I for one can’t wait to discover what Renaultsport’s latest creation is like.
For those of you unfamiliar with the hot Twingo’s vital stats, here’s a quick recap: Renault hasn’t released any performance or weight figures yet, but we’re guessing it’ll weigh just over a ton, crack 60mph in 9sec and top-out at 120mph or so. It costs £11,500 and is powered by a 1.6-litre, four-cylinder engine developing 133bhp and 118lb ft of torque. A lower, stiffer ‘Cup’ chassis option – complete with 17in alloys and 195/40 tyres – costs an extra £650 and will be available from launch. Sounds good doesn’t it?
Perhaps it’s because the 133 comes at a time when our world is pulsating with 650bhp Mercs and near-500bhp Nissans but there’s something genuinely refreshing about the concept of a diminutive but sharply focussed hot hatchback. Don’t get me wrong, I love the current crop of top-end metal as much as the next man, but I still have extremely fond memories of a year living with Fiat’s Panda 100HP.
Much against my expectations I was completely won over by its manic enthusiasm, and even turned a blind eye to its truly awful ride. Despite its flaws it was a continual reminder that small power needn’t be a barrier to big fun. Fiat has since proved there’s a huge appetite for exciting, stylish small performance cars with Abarth versions of the 500 and Punto, and Renaultsport clearly has the same idea: it will soon have an enviable range of hot hatches starting with the Twingo 133 and culminating in the hardcore Megane R26R.
So, am I alone, or are you excited by Renaultsport’s new baby too? What are you expecting from it? What does it need to achieve to be a success, and what shortcomings would lead you to think it a wasted opportunity?
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71 Comments
arthur Veldhoen
August 21, 2008I think it needs to be the next Pug 106 Rallye.
How? Lightness and adjustability. To me, that means the weight must be LESS than a tonne and a throttle-adjustable rear end.
Also, little cars like this should be cheap to buy and own, otherwise you might as well stick with an old 106 gti. I reckon the Suzuki Swift Sport is already overpriced, but then again, I’m Dutch.
arthur Veldhoen
August 21, 2008I think it needs to be the next Pug 106 Rallye.
How? Lightness and adjustability. To me, that means the weight must be LESS than a tonne and a throttle-adjustable rear end.
Also, little cars like this should be cheap to buy and own, otherwise you might as well stick with an old 106 gti. I reckon the Suzuki Swift Sport is already overpriced, but then again, I’m Dutch.
tribeca
August 21, 2008If it weighs over a tonne I would be disappointed. The Twingo GT weighs in at 980kg which is already a bit on the heavy side for what is suppose to be a small car.
I’m reminded of Chris’ rant about large wheels…does a Renault Twingo have any need or use for 17″ wheels? Surely the brakes aren’t of a size that would demand such a large rim?
I can’t imagine it requiring anything larger than a 280mm disc up front (the GT uses 259mm discs I think?). If that were the case then a 15″ or 16″ wheel would do…they’d then manage to use a tyre with a sensible side wall. If it was good enough for the Integra/EK9 Civic Type R?
I’m dubious how about this car fulfilling it’s potential as a feisty small hatch when it can be adorned with ‘big’ car wheels and possibly old Clio weight.
tribeca
August 21, 2008If it weighs over a tonne I would be disappointed. The Twingo GT weighs in at 980kg which is already a bit on the heavy side for what is suppose to be a small car.
I’m reminded of Chris’ rant about large wheels…does a Renault Twingo have any need or use for 17″ wheels? Surely the brakes aren’t of a size that would demand such a large rim?
I can’t imagine it requiring anything larger than a 280mm disc up front (the GT uses 259mm discs I think?). If that were the case then a 15″ or 16″ wheel would do…they’d then manage to use a tyre with a sensible side wall. If it was good enough for the Integra/EK9 Civic Type R?
I’m dubious how about this car fulfilling it’s potential as a feisty small hatch when it can be adorned with ‘big’ car wheels and possibly old Clio weight.
jem
August 21, 2008It will probably have a horrible electric steering setup and a grippy but unmovable back end. But lets hope I am wrong
jem
August 21, 2008It will probably have a horrible electric steering setup and a grippy but unmovable back end. But lets hope I am wrong
Joe
August 22, 2008It’s a few years since I’ve had anything but a passing interest in a small car such as this but everyone’s circumstances change and suddenly this sector is relevant to me.
Baby on the way, so a change in the mini-fleet is undeway. The family car is sorted, the weekend / trackday toy sorted and I’m minded to sell my 335d coupe for a pocket rocket for my london commute and occasional other use, pocketing the change.
Am I mad?
I razzed to work in my 240R this morning and it reminded me what a delight a small car is in the City. So yes, the Twingo might be just the job.
Abarth interesting but a tad metrosexual; I might drink at shoreditch house but I don’t work in media.
Does the Twingo have any useable torque? (192 no good, Harry says so)
Will this shake my fillings out like a Mini cooper S / 100HP on London’s quality roads?
Does it have the essentials these days – aircon/bluetooth as a minimum.
Can I use it to drive to the Cotswolds at the weekend without getting a headache.
Why is the Mito GTA not out when I need it.
Please bring one back and drive from Wandsworth to the City at 6am in the dark. Let me know if you arrived with a smile on your face!
Great site, you boys must be working hard.
Joe
August 22, 2008It’s a few years since I’ve had anything but a passing interest in a small car such as this but everyone’s circumstances change and suddenly this sector is relevant to me.
Baby on the way, so a change in the mini-fleet is undeway. The family car is sorted, the weekend / trackday toy sorted and I’m minded to sell my 335d coupe for a pocket rocket for my london commute and occasional other use, pocketing the change.
Am I mad?
I razzed to work in my 240R this morning and it reminded me what a delight a small car is in the City. So yes, the Twingo might be just the job.
Abarth interesting but a tad metrosexual; I might drink at shoreditch house but I don’t work in media.
Does the Twingo have any useable torque? (192 no good, Harry says so)
Will this shake my fillings out like a Mini cooper S / 100HP on London’s quality roads?
Does it have the essentials these days – aircon/bluetooth as a minimum.
Can I use it to drive to the Cotswolds at the weekend without getting a headache.
Why is the Mito GTA not out when I need it.
Please bring one back and drive from Wandsworth to the City at 6am in the dark. Let me know if you arrived with a smile on your face!
Great site, you boys must be working hard.
Richard-DR
August 22, 2008I agree, a 106 Rallye for 2008 would be great, but we have to be realistic about weight. Anything with mainstream roots is doing well to get anywhere near a ton, so don’t be too hard on Renault if it is just over. The Panda 100HP is just under but has less power and torque, so there’s hope for the Twingo yet. As for power steering, electric systems don’t always mean sub-Playstation feel, and for evidence of Renault’s ability to create a tail-happy chassis take a look at Chris’s ‘How to oversteer a fwd car’ vid in DR TV…
If Renault can engineer a lightness of touch, poise and a throttle-adjustable balance into the Twingo it stands a good chance of delivering a proper driving experience in a way the Panda 100HP just falls short of.
Richard-DR
August 22, 2008I agree, a 106 Rallye for 2008 would be great, but we have to be realistic about weight. Anything with mainstream roots is doing well to get anywhere near a ton, so don’t be too hard on Renault if it is just over. The Panda 100HP is just under but has less power and torque, so there’s hope for the Twingo yet. As for power steering, electric systems don’t always mean sub-Playstation feel, and for evidence of Renault’s ability to create a tail-happy chassis take a look at Chris’s ‘How to oversteer a fwd car’ vid in DR TV…
If Renault can engineer a lightness of touch, poise and a throttle-adjustable balance into the Twingo it stands a good chance of delivering a proper driving experience in a way the Panda 100HP just falls short of.
jamin
August 22, 2008If it was 106 Rallye standard it would be a must, oh how i miss that car! As a Clio Trophy owner I wonder why hatches are no longer as throttle adjustable as my old pug? I think a tonne is an acceptable weight as long as it has enough poke ,which it should, and rides well enough to nip down some bumpy B roads with real agility and puts a huge smile on your face. As for bluetooth and air con come on Joe this is a tiny fast hatch these should be the least of your concerns!!
jamin
August 22, 2008If it was 106 Rallye standard it would be a must, oh how i miss that car! As a Clio Trophy owner I wonder why hatches are no longer as throttle adjustable as my old pug? I think a tonne is an acceptable weight as long as it has enough poke ,which it should, and rides well enough to nip down some bumpy B roads with real agility and puts a huge smile on your face. As for bluetooth and air con come on Joe this is a tiny fast hatch these should be the least of your concerns!!
Cameron
August 22, 2008what I really want to know is whether it is possible to use the hand brake (e-brake) while moving… or has it got one of those stupid ones that is some how made unusable whilst moving…… What I have found from being in certain cars at certain roundabouts is that some combinations just beg you to pull that e-brake and let that rear end go…. e.g. the mini one, which is surprisingly good at producing a good hand brake drift……
I doubt the Twingo’s speed is the aspect that you are likely to relish the most, surely it is the agility and light weight that is the aspect that you will play around with in both wet and dry conditions… so what I want to know is it possible to “rip that e-brake” and have a little play with its nimbleness, FF layout ????
Cameron
August 23, 2008what I really want to know is whether it is possible to use the hand brake (e-brake) while moving… or has it got one of those stupid ones that is some how made unusable whilst moving…… What I have found from being in certain cars at certain roundabouts is that some combinations just beg you to pull that e-brake and let that rear end go…. e.g. the mini one, which is surprisingly good at producing a good hand brake drift……
I doubt the Twingo’s speed is the aspect that you are likely to relish the most, surely it is the agility and light weight that is the aspect that you will play around with in both wet and dry conditions… so what I want to know is it possible to “rip that e-brake” and have a little play with its nimbleness, FF layout ????
Vitor Pinto
August 23, 2008Well, agreeing with some comentaries,the pug 106 rallye is the purpose to aim in manny aspects, especially perfomance/ per pound(or euro) and overall drivers satisfaction.
Also is important to know the practibility and economy owning one of these “hot bugs”. It seems many people are changing his minds and focus it´s attention in driving more than in plain performance figures. One question though, where and when will you try the twingo? BTW I´m portuguese. If you need any help just ask
Vitor Pinto
August 23, 2008Well, agreeing with some comentaries,the pug 106 rallye is the purpose to aim in manny aspects, especially perfomance/ per pound(or euro) and overall drivers satisfaction.
Also is important to know the practibility and economy owning one of these “hot bugs”. It seems many people are changing his minds and focus it´s attention in driving more than in plain performance figures. One question though, where and when will you try the twingo? BTW I´m portuguese. If you need any help just ask
Honest Paul
August 23, 2008After owning a plethora of force fed high powered cars I’m back into an MX5 and enjoying the fact that the top end of 4th gear doesn’t mean I’m barreling along at 125mph with 2 gears still left to go. I hope this little Renault can deliver the same low speed/high fun ratio as my little Mazda. Looking at the diminutive (118lbft) torque figure it must be normally aspirated and will probably be all the better for it.
Honest Paul
August 23, 2008After owning a plethora of force fed high powered cars I’m back into an MX5 and enjoying the fact that the top end of 4th gear doesn’t mean I’m barreling along at 125mph with 2 gears still left to go. I hope this little Renault can deliver the same low speed/high fun ratio as my little Mazda. Looking at the diminutive (118lbft) torque figure it must be normally aspirated and will probably be all the better for it.
Jorge Amorim
August 24, 2008When I remember the fact that the clio 197 was heavily criticized for the lack of torque and low-rpm punch, and realize it has almost 70bhp more than this twingo… I get a bit worried.
So, my questions are, will it feel like it’s going anywhere any fast and does it feel small, light and nimble, like a super-mini-hot-hatch should?
No doubt it should have a great chassis… Renault has repeatedly shown what they can do with numerous clio and megane versions.
About power and weight, I’m all for naturally aspirated, but in 2008 with a regular diesel putting out some 300nm at 2000rpm, I think naturally aspirated engines only stand a chance with low weight cars… which is something most of the industry has forgotten how to do. With heavy cars, only big capacity or turbocharging will make them feel like they’re going anywhere.
But… sometimes I just wonder if all this eco-friendliness thing will force the industry to work on reducing the weights. If they go that way, maybe, just maybe, every petrolhead would actually have to thank the environmentalists for it…
cheers
Jorge Amorim
August 24, 2008When I remember the fact that the clio 197 was heavily criticized for the lack of torque and low-rpm punch, and realize it has almost 70bhp more than this twingo… I get a bit worried.
So, my questions are, will it feel like it’s going anywhere any fast and does it feel small, light and nimble, like a super-mini-hot-hatch should?
No doubt it should have a great chassis… Renault has repeatedly shown what they can do with numerous clio and megane versions.
About power and weight, I’m all for naturally aspirated, but in 2008 with a regular diesel putting out some 300nm at 2000rpm, I think naturally aspirated engines only stand a chance with low weight cars… which is something most of the industry has forgotten how to do. With heavy cars, only big capacity or turbocharging will make them feel like they’re going anywhere.
But… sometimes I just wonder if all this eco-friendliness thing will force the industry to work on reducing the weights. If they go that way, maybe, just maybe, every petrolhead would actually have to thank the environmentalists for it…
cheers
Alexander Henden
August 24, 2008Sure it’s exciting… if you live in Europe. This is just the kind of car I crave and the closest thing we have in Canada is the Toyota Yaris. Pretty sad. Luckily my current vehicle is a Nissan Sentra SER Spec V, which does fall quite neatly into the ‘fun’ category.
Alexander Henden
August 24, 2008Sure it’s exciting… if you live in Europe. This is just the kind of car I crave and the closest thing we have in Canada is the Toyota Yaris. Pretty sad. Luckily my current vehicle is a Nissan Sentra SER Spec V, which does fall quite neatly into the ‘fun’ category.
david182bhp
August 24, 2008let’s hope that it is the opportunity that renaultsport have needed to create a fun small car with good dynamics and a memorable experience quotient. the 197 was not much of a step up from the 182- we expected more. it would be great if this is as much fun as the 182. it doesn’t matter that there is a lot of horsepower around at the moment. we still look for evocative driving experiences for a few bucks. i really hope renaultsport deliver.
david182bhp
August 24, 2008let’s hope that it is the opportunity that renaultsport have needed to create a fun small car with good dynamics and a memorable experience quotient. the 197 was not much of a step up from the 182- we expected more. it would be great if this is as much fun as the 182. it doesn’t matter that there is a lot of horsepower around at the moment. we still look for evocative driving experiences for a few bucks. i really hope renaultsport deliver.
Jon
August 26, 2008This this should be just my kind of car, though I expect it will have a bit too much weight and grip, not enough adjustability to be the real 106 Rallye successor I crave.
I’d like to know, 1) Can you turn the ESP off? 2) How heavy? 3)How adjustable on the throttle?
Jon
August 26, 2008This this should be just my kind of car, though I expect it will have a bit too much weight and grip, not enough adjustability to be the real 106 Rallye successor I crave.
I’d like to know, 1) Can you turn the ESP off? 2) How heavy? 3)How adjustable on the throttle?
Nuno Pinto
August 26, 2008Having driven a Twingo GT just a few weeks ago, I sincerely hope that the Twingo 133 won’t show the GT’s playstation feel in both steering and throttle.
That said, I really enjoyed its chassis. Decently adjustable with its soft suspension and big-sidewalled-tires, I reckon it will be spot on with the ‘Cup’ option (even though 16″ would probably be enough).
As for the engine’s performance… we shall see.
Nuno Pinto
August 27, 2008Having driven a Twingo GT just a few weeks ago, I sincerely hope that the Twingo 133 won’t show the GT’s playstation feel in both steering and throttle.
That said, I really enjoyed its chassis. Decently adjustable with its soft suspension and big-sidewalled-tires, I reckon it will be spot on with the ‘Cup’ option (even though 16″ would probably be enough).
As for the engine’s performance… we shall see.
Djivy
August 27, 2008Just received the stats from Renault Benelux:
Weight: 1125kg (!)
Top; 201 km/h
0-62: 8,7s
Quarter Mile: 16,3s
Standing km: 29,9s
Which makes the weight the most impressive stat…
Djivy
August 27, 2008Just received the stats from Renault Benelux:
Weight: 1125kg (!)
Top; 201 km/h
0-62: 8,7s
Quarter Mile: 16,3s
Standing km: 29,9s
Which makes the weight the most impressive stat…
Richard - DR
August 27, 2008Thanks for the info Djivy, and to everyone else for their thoughts.
You’re right about the weight being disappointing, but those performance figures are almost exactly what we guessed at, so I’m not too worried.
Still, those figures prompted me to take a look back through some old 106 Rallye specs, and I discovered that the performance is almost identical, so the Renault shouldn’t feel too flat. It’s also quicker than the Suzuki Swift Sport despite being a few kilos heavier.
As we suspected it’ll be feel that ultimately makes or breaks the Twingo as a proper driver’s car. I’m due to fly out to Porto in Portugal tomorrow for the launch, where we’ll have a couple of days to try both standard and Cup chassis 133s. Let’s hope Renaultsport delivers…
Richard - DR
August 27, 2008Thanks for the info Djivy, and to everyone else for their thoughts.
You’re right about the weight being disappointing, but those performance figures are almost exactly what we guessed at, so I’m not too worried.
Still, those figures prompted me to take a look back through some old 106 Rallye specs, and I discovered that the performance is almost identical, so the Renault shouldn’t feel too flat. It’s also quicker than the Suzuki Swift Sport despite being a few kilos heavier.
As we suspected it’ll be feel that ultimately makes or breaks the Twingo as a proper driver’s car. I’m due to fly out to Porto in Portugal tomorrow for the launch, where we’ll have a couple of days to try both standard and Cup chassis 133s. Let’s hope Renaultsport delivers…
Arthur Veldhoen
August 27, 20081125kg?!? That’s me out, already. In Holland roadtax is calculated in weight brackets and this is already getting expensive. Like I said earlier, to me some of the fun that’s to be had from cars like this is the fact that they’re cheap to run while you’re having fun.
A friend of mine recently rocked up in a last generation MR-2. 140 bhp sounds nice, but the thing that blew my doors off was the weight. Or rather, the lack of it. Renault should be shamed to tears knowing that even a convertible needs to weigh no more than 950 kgs. It might look a wee bit girlie but telling your mates your new car’s a Twingo is not going to mark you out as a real hard-man either, is it?
Arthur Veldhoen
August 27, 20081125kg?!? That’s me out, already. In Holland roadtax is calculated in weight brackets and this is already getting expensive. Like I said earlier, to me some of the fun that’s to be had from cars like this is the fact that they’re cheap to run while you’re having fun.
A friend of mine recently rocked up in a last generation MR-2. 140 bhp sounds nice, but the thing that blew my doors off was the weight. Or rather, the lack of it. Renault should be shamed to tears knowing that even a convertible needs to weigh no more than 950 kgs. It might look a wee bit girlie but telling your mates your new car’s a Twingo is not going to mark you out as a real hard-man either, is it?
Arthur Veldhoen
August 27, 2008And then right at the end I still forgot.
Have a great vac… sorry BUSINESStrip then Richard.
Sure the weather’s nice down there right now.
No envy here, obviously.
Arthur Veldhoen
August 27, 2008And then right at the end I still forgot.
Have a great vac… sorry BUSINESStrip then Richard.
Sure the weather’s nice down there right now.
No envy here, obviously.
Richard - DR
August 27, 2008No problem Arthur, I’ll soak up some sun – and perhaps a beer or two – on your behalf…
As for the MR2, yep that was a truly great car. I remember being told that in the beginning it was a fun project started by some engineers within Toyota, rather than a full-on corporate effort. Perhaps that’s why it was so driver focussed, and yes, light. That might also explain why it had no luggage compartment
Seems madness that they stopped making it doesn’t it?
Seriously, I’ll use that car as an example when talking to Renault’s engineers about whether we can expect any return to lightness in the near future. The R26 R might be an extreme example, but I get the impression Renaultsport might share your frustration at the bulky nature of today’s everyday cars.
Richard - DR
August 27, 2008No problem Arthur, I’ll soak up some sun – and perhaps a beer or two – on your behalf…
As for the MR2, yep that was a truly great car. I remember being told that in the beginning it was a fun project started by some engineers within Toyota, rather than a full-on corporate effort. Perhaps that’s why it was so driver focussed, and yes, light. That might also explain why it had no luggage compartment
Seems madness that they stopped making it doesn’t it?
Seriously, I’ll use that car as an example when talking to Renault’s engineers about whether we can expect any return to lightness in the near future. The R26 R might be an extreme example, but I get the impression Renaultsport might share your frustration at the bulky nature of today’s everyday cars.
Vitor Pinto
August 28, 2008Well personaly, the numbers are a bit disapointing, especially the weight.
I wonder if a Twingo Gt, with some upgrades in the engine ( a remap should do the trick) and suspension, wouldn´t be a match for twingo sport. With 980 kgs it´s 145 kgs lighter!!
BTW Richard,Porto is not the best city in Portugal regarding the weather. A bit windy and foggy in the mornings. If you like tipical food, try a “francesinha” in Porto, with a “Super Bock” pint. A good restaurant for that is the “Capa Negra”. Everybody knows.
Vitor Pinto
August 28, 2008Well personaly, the numbers are a bit disapointing, especially the weight.
I wonder if a Twingo Gt, with some upgrades in the engine ( a remap should do the trick) and suspension, wouldn´t be a match for twingo sport. With 980 kgs it´s 145 kgs lighter!!
BTW Richard,Porto is not the best city in Portugal regarding the weather. A bit windy and foggy in the mornings. If you like tipical food, try a “francesinha” in Porto, with a “Super Bock” pint. A good restaurant for that is the “Capa Negra”. Everybody knows.
tribeca
August 28, 20081125kg… not fantastic…but like you say it opens a line of conversation with Renault about future thoughts on weight which will surely make for interesting reading.
Quite intrigued about the car still though.
tribeca
August 28, 20081125kg… not fantastic…but like you say it opens a line of conversation with Renault about future thoughts on weight which will surely make for interesting reading.
Quite intrigued about the car still though.
Richard - DR
August 28, 2008I’m not going to spill all the beans just yet, but thought you’d be interested to know that the Twingo 133′s official weight is 1049kgs, which is rather better than we’d hoped.
I had a very good chat with Renaultsport’s head of Performance Dynamics, and he’s as keen to build light cars as you’d hope. He’s also a big fan of how Porsche engineer such consistency and polish into all its cars, and is keen to achieve similar with Renaultsport models.
We managed to find a great stretch of road (not on the prescribed route, so unique to DR) and had a really entertaining time with the Cup-spec car. In fact we were having a bit too much fun and were more than an hour late back to our hotel. Oops.
You’ll have to wait for the full feature for all the juicy details, but suffice to say I genuinely think they’ve done a cracking job. And yes, the ESP is switchable!
Richard - DR
August 28, 2008I’m not going to spill all the beans just yet, but thought you’d be interested to know that the Twingo 133′s official weight is 1049kgs, which is rather better than we’d hoped.
I had a very good chat with Renaultsport’s head of Performance Dynamics, and he’s as keen to build light cars as you’d hope. He’s also a big fan of how Porsche engineer such consistency and polish into all its cars, and is keen to achieve similar with Renaultsport models.
We managed to find a great stretch of road (not on the prescribed route, so unique to DR) and had a really entertaining time with the Cup-spec car. In fact we were having a bit too much fun and were more than an hour late back to our hotel. Oops.
You’ll have to wait for the full feature for all the juicy details, but suffice to say I genuinely think they’ve done a cracking job. And yes, the ESP is switchable!
jon
August 30, 2008good to hear it’s entertaining – now what we really need to know is when/if the next clio V6 will ever appear
and how much of these rising weights is safety/crash legislations, and how much is consumers demanding bigger cars??
cheers jon
jon
August 30, 2008good to hear it’s entertaining – now what we really need to know is when/if the next clio V6 will ever appear
and how much of these rising weights is safety/crash legislations, and how much is consumers demanding bigger cars??
cheers jon
colin
September 2, 2008Just as others have said, I would be iterested to know how it compares to a 106 gti for fun and throttle adjustability.
colin
September 2, 2008Just as others have said, I would be iterested to know how it compares to a 106 gti for fun and throttle adjustability.
tribeca
September 9, 2008Good feature, I had a feeling it was going to turn out positive.
It’s def. not a looker from the front but side on/rear it’s quite a cool wee thing.
I think I would definitely consider one as a first ‘grown-up’ car when I leave uni.
The pedals were amusing…clever…but more than a fraction of cheese. Any idea how much they are as an option?
tribeca
September 9, 2008Good feature, I had a feeling it was going to turn out positive.
It’s def. not a looker from the front but side on/rear it’s quite a cool wee thing.
I think I would definitely consider one as a first ‘grown-up’ car when I leave uni.
The pedals were amusing…clever…but more than a fraction of cheese. Any idea how much they are as an option?
Richard - DR
September 10, 2008I’ll look at the options list info and post some prices. I did note that Renault appear to be ‘doing a MINI’ in terms of the variety and sheer number of small, affordable options (numerous decal kits, interior trim etc). Some – like the pedals – are a bit gimmicky, but each to their own I guess…
Richard - DR
September 10, 2008I’ll look at the options list info and post some prices. I did note that Renault appear to be ‘doing a MINI’ in terms of the variety and sheer number of small, affordable options (numerous decal kits, interior trim etc). Some – like the pedals – are a bit gimmicky, but each to their own I guess…
Judah777
September 11, 2008Come on DR…do you really expect us to believe you when you go on and on about a FWD shopping cart??????????
I mean its doesn’t even have a proper Double-Wishbone suspension…..like the Integra or Civic Type R used to have….i so miss the JDM DC2 Integra.
I recently drove a host of modern machines….from 350Z to Volvo C30 to Golf GTI to Mazda RX-8 to Mazda MX-5..i even had a go in an Evo X…..and I can truly say that the Mazda MX-5 was the MOST fun…the MOSt special feeling car of the lot.
The model I drove was a US spec Grand Touring with Power Retractable Hard Top. EVERYTHING…..steering feeling, shift quality, pedal placement, clutch engagement, braking was just wonderful.
I can only imagine how much better it would be if Mazda would export the MX-5 with the engine and suspension upgrades found on the JDM market MZ-Tune Edition.
We don’t need 400 plus hp V8 powered copes, 500 hp/1800kg wagons, trick double-clutch gearboxes or underpowered FWD hatches with RETRO-grade twist beam suspensions ……
what we need are more lightweight (1100kgs) coupes/convertibles with good power (180-200 hp) with a proper Double-Wishbone suspension and well sorted handling …..in order words more MX-5s…..
Judah777
September 11, 2008Come on DR…do you really expect us to believe you when you go on and on about a FWD shopping cart??????????
I mean its doesn’t even have a proper Double-Wishbone suspension…..like the Integra or Civic Type R used to have….i so miss the JDM DC2 Integra.
I recently drove a host of modern machines….from 350Z to Volvo C30 to Golf GTI to Mazda RX-8 to Mazda MX-5..i even had a go in an Evo X…..and I can truly say that the Mazda MX-5 was the MOST fun…the MOSt special feeling car of the lot.
The model I drove was a US spec Grand Touring with Power Retractable Hard Top. EVERYTHING…..steering feeling, shift quality, pedal placement, clutch engagement, braking was just wonderful.
I can only imagine how much better it would be if Mazda would export the MX-5 with the engine and suspension upgrades found on the JDM market MZ-Tune Edition.
We don’t need 400 plus hp V8 powered copes, 500 hp/1800kg wagons, trick double-clutch gearboxes or underpowered FWD hatches with RETRO-grade twist beam suspensions ……
what we need are more lightweight (1100kgs) coupes/convertibles with good power (180-200 hp) with a proper Double-Wishbone suspension and well sorted handling …..in order words more MX-5s…..
Richard - DR
September 11, 2008Nope, you don’t HAVE to believe us, but we have at least driven the Twingo 133 and not pre-judged it for simply being a hatchback.
As for your comments on the current MX-5, unless it has been transformed since the one I drove I’m surprised to hear you rave about the steering as the latest generation car isn’t a patch on the Mk1 or Mk2 models for purity of feel.
Richard - DR
September 11, 2008Nope, you don’t HAVE to believe us, but we have at least driven the Twingo 133 and not pre-judged it for simply being a hatchback.
As for your comments on the current MX-5, unless it has been transformed since the one I drove I’m surprised to hear you rave about the steering as the latest generation car isn’t a patch on the Mk1 or Mk2 models for purity of feel.
tribeca
September 11, 2008I’m not sure about Judah’s out burst there?
I honestly don’t think the majority of people will see any benefit from driving a car that has double wishbone suspension all round…and not having that set up doesn’t mean you should write off a car instantly.
People who are in the market for a small-hatch are buying it for practicality as well as performance…a coupe would be no good to me..
tribeca
September 11, 2008I’m not sure about Judah’s out burst there?
I honestly don’t think the majority of people will see any benefit from driving a car that has double wishbone suspension all round…and not having that set up doesn’t mean you should write off a car instantly.
People who are in the market for a small-hatch are buying it for practicality as well as performance…a coupe would be no good to me..
Judah777
September 11, 2008Okay,
I’ll admit that maybe I went a little overboard on my last post.
I suppose you are right Tribeca, a hatch is much more practical than a coupe. However, I am not a fan of the idea of one car doing it all.
A hatch would make a great family car…to do all the mundane tasks of everyday life.
Yet I’m sure that most car enthusiasts could give some spare cash for a “dedicated” sports car….than doesn’t cost the world to buy, maintain or fuel.
The Exo X I drove belongs my girlfriend’s cousin and he has to fill up every two days……
With fuel costing as much as it does nowadays that is absolutely unacceptable.
Also, I don’t think the average enthusiast driver is going to miss that last bit of steering feel or ultimate handling that a Porsche might provide……most of us do not have the skills to extract the best from any modern Porsche on the street or track.
I think what we are really looking for is an engaging and enjoyable driving experience that helps us to become better drivers while flattering our less than expert skills.
Anyway Richard, keep up the GREAT work…..DR is a truly refreshing change from the “other” auto-enthusiast magazines.
By the way, since we’re on the subject of FWD…. how about a comparison test with the new JDM FD2 Civic Type R and Europe’s best…..like the Renault Megane R26, Focus ST and Mini Cooper S Works ?
Judah777
September 11, 2008Okay,
I’ll admit that maybe I went a little overboard on my last post.
I suppose you are right Tribeca, a hatch is much more practical than a coupe. However, I am not a fan of the idea of one car doing it all.
A hatch would make a great family car…to do all the mundane tasks of everyday life.
Yet I’m sure that most car enthusiasts could give some spare cash for a “dedicated” sports car….than doesn’t cost the world to buy, maintain or fuel.
The Exo X I drove belongs my girlfriend’s cousin and he has to fill up every two days……
With fuel costing as much as it does nowadays that is absolutely unacceptable.
Also, I don’t think the average enthusiast driver is going to miss that last bit of steering feel or ultimate handling that a Porsche might provide……most of us do not have the skills to extract the best from any modern Porsche on the street or track.
I think what we are really looking for is an engaging and enjoyable driving experience that helps us to become better drivers while flattering our less than expert skills.
Anyway Richard, keep up the GREAT work…..DR is a truly refreshing change from the “other” auto-enthusiast magazines.
By the way, since we’re on the subject of FWD…. how about a comparison test with the new JDM FD2 Civic Type R and Europe’s best…..like the Renault Megane R26, Focus ST and Mini Cooper S Works ?
Richard - DR
September 12, 2008Judah,
You’ll be pleased to hear we’ve got a JDM Civic vs JCW Mini test coming next week, complete with Trackvision data overlay in-car laps from Silverstone.
We’ve also just done a test that explores the nature of ‘feel’ with a wide range of cars (front-drive, rear-drive, all-wheel drive and a variety of engine layouts) so this should at least provide fuel for discussion on what we as drivers rely on in terms of feedback, and how that translates into enjoyment.
Richard - DR
September 12, 2008Judah,
You’ll be pleased to hear we’ve got a JDM Civic vs JCW Mini test coming next week, complete with Trackvision data overlay in-car laps from Silverstone.
We’ve also just done a test that explores the nature of ‘feel’ with a wide range of cars (front-drive, rear-drive, all-wheel drive and a variety of engine layouts) so this should at least provide fuel for discussion on what we as drivers rely on in terms of feedback, and how that translates into enjoyment.
Arthur Veldhoen
September 12, 2008Good to hear you liked the car a lot. I’m sure that if you hadn’t you would have knocked it.
Quite interesting to read a car review that touches upon subjects that punters like us have come up with. This certainly sets DR apart from any other type of car magazine. Most excellent.
Not too sure if I’m qualified to speak as a “hot hatch fundamentalist” though, as you put it.
In the past ten years I’ve owned 4 old school Impreza Turbo’s, 2 Evo’s (a 6 and a 7) a BMW E-46 M3-smg and yes, 1 Pug 106 Rallye 1.6.
Anyone thinking that the 106 is really odd and out in the line-up is dead wrong, though.
I’ve taken all these cars to the Nordschleife numerous times, and even if it was slowest, I rate it’s funfactor higher than the M3, for instance. And all this before the price comes into the equation.
So yes, I was interested in the Twingo. And after reading Richard’s article, I am even more. Delighted to hear there is an alternative to shelling out 120.000 Euro’s on a Nissan GT-R.
That’s right, 120K where I live.
Many thanks then, Richard, for saving me a cool Euro-ton!!!
Maarten Buitenhuis
January 18, 2011Hee Arthur, heb je je EVO 6 nog?
gr, Maarten
Arthur Veldhoen
September 12, 2008Good to hear you liked the car a lot. I’m sure that if you hadn’t you would have knocked it.
Quite interesting to read a car review that touches upon subjects that punters like us have come up with. This certainly sets DR apart from any other type of car magazine. Most excellent.
Not too sure if I’m qualified to speak as a “hot hatch fundamentalist” though, as you put it.
In the past ten years I’ve owned 4 old school Impreza Turbo’s, 2 Evo’s (a 6 and a 7) a BMW E-46 M3-smg and yes, 1 Pug 106 Rallye 1.6.
Anyone thinking that the 106 is really odd and out in the line-up is dead wrong, though.
I’ve taken all these cars to the Nordschleife numerous times, and even if it was slowest, I rate it’s funfactor higher than the M3, for instance. And all this before the price comes into the equation.
So yes, I was interested in the Twingo. And after reading Richard’s article, I am even more. Delighted to hear there is an alternative to shelling out 120.000 Euro’s on a Nissan GT-R.
That’s right, 120K where I live.
Many thanks then, Richard, for saving me a cool Euro-ton!!!
Richard - DR
September 12, 2008No problem Arthur. Keep the suggestions coming.
Richard - DR
September 12, 2008No problem Arthur. Keep the suggestions coming.
Judah777
September 12, 2008Richard,
I am eagerly looking forward to reading that twin test of the Mini and FD2 Type R.
The test you mention which explores the nature of “feel” sounds very intriguing.
The comparison tests between the 350Z and the 123d, and Audi TT was very insightful and informative….these are the kind tests that set DR apart from the rest of the auto-mags.
Keep up the excellent work…..DR seems to have its finger on the pulse of the auto-enthusiast’s heart beat.
Judah777
September 12, 2008Richard,
I am eagerly looking forward to reading that twin test of the Mini and FD2 Type R.
The test you mention which explores the nature of “feel” sounds very intriguing.
The comparison tests between the 350Z and the 123d, and Audi TT was very insightful and informative….these are the kind tests that set DR apart from the rest of the auto-mags.
Keep up the excellent work…..DR seems to have its finger on the pulse of the auto-enthusiast’s heart beat.
Judah777
September 12, 2008Richard,
I am eagerly looking forward to reading that twin test of the Mini and FD2 Type R.
The test you mention which explores the nature of “feel” sounds very intriguing.
The comparison tests between the 350Z / 123d, and Audi TTS / Porsche Cayman were very insightful and informative….these are the kind tests that set DR apart from the rest of the auto-mags.
Keep up the excellent work…..DR seems to have its finger on the pulse of the auto-enthusiast’s heart beat.
Judah777
September 12, 2008Richard,
I am eagerly looking forward to reading that twin test of the Mini and FD2 Type R.
The test you mention which explores the nature of “feel” sounds very intriguing.
The comparison tests between the 350Z / 123d, and Audi TTS / Porsche Cayman were very insightful and informative….these are the kind tests that set DR apart from the rest of the auto-mags.
Keep up the excellent work…..DR seems to have its finger on the pulse of the auto-enthusiast’s heart beat.