30.03.2009
Nissan’s 370Z has the Cayman firmly in its sights – a dangerous game, as the mid-engined Porsche is a stunning device. But will the Zed’s price tip the balance? And can either of them evade the charm’s of a used original Cayman in these uncertain times?
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18 Comments
DriversRepublic (The DR Team)
March 30, 2009Posted on DR: New Nissan 370Z v Porsche Cayman S http://bit.ly/soJc1
DriversRepublic (The DR Team)
March 30, 2009Posted on DR: New Nissan 370Z v Porsche Cayman S http://bit.ly/soJc1
daytonafan
March 30, 2009Good article Chris. whereabouts in Northern France did you go?
daytonafan
March 30, 2009Good article Chris. whereabouts in Northern France did you go?
Jack Wood
March 30, 2009We were on the roads around Mortefontain near the CERN test track.
The road through the woods that you see in a few of the shots (including the skid shots) was a gem. Chris reckoned that it must have been maintained by CERN to use on a test route. It was consistently paved and had every combination of bend and camber imaginable. Would have been perfect it had been closed off!! I bit to narrow and blind to get too carried away
Jack Wood
March 30, 2009We were on the roads around Mortefontain near the CERN test track.
The road through the woods that you see in a few of the shots (including the skid shots) was a gem. Chris reckoned that it must have been maintained by CERN to use on a test route. It was consistently paved and had every combination of bend and camber imaginable. Would have been perfect it had been closed off!! I bit to narrow and blind to get too carried away
JackWood
April 1, 2009Cayman S – The Cost Of Change
It’s a real dilemma. What to do? What to do?
There I was, sat comfortable with the though that no matter what had been written from the first drive reports, the Gen2 Cayman S could not possibly be £30k worth of capital or finance better than my current Gen 1 Cayman S. A Cayman that I had covered forty eight thousand glorious miles in over the last three and a half years. No way could the Gen2 car be so much better that it would persuade me that spending a further £30k as the Cost To Change up to it would be anything other than moronic.
You see, my trusty Dec 05, 55-reg Cayman S has been one of those defining cars for me. It’s defined my appreciation for vehicle dynamics to a degree that I had previously not thought possible. It has defined the way I look at reliable performance. The way I look at everyday usability. It’s ultimately defined the way I look and judge every other car on the road and what it has to offer me. And as such it is a car that I am still driving every day after over 3 years of ownership. And that from a man who had never owned a car for longer than 18 months up to point of collecting those keys on that cold December morning.
Of course MX55 YUK didn’t stay completely standard. The day the warranty expired, a Quaife diff was fitted, and at the next available brake change, a set of Pagid pads were fitted. But bar those two minor indiscretions the car has remained standard, serviced just the twice at 20k miles a-piece and had the PS2’s replaced when needed. And that’s about it. Cheaper day-to-day performance of this level I believe is just not possible.
That is, until you start to look at what it would cost to put you back in a new car of the same spec. Until you start looking at that £30k.
OK, so some of that is down to the number of miles I’ve put on the car over it’s short life, and some may be due to the stone chips that a handful of track days a year and a couple of trans-alps crossings might have added to the nose. But it’s still 30 grand that would need to be found to put me behind the wheel of a similar specced car. It seems like a big ask.
But then the inevitable happens. An invitation so spend some time in the new car. “Just don’t drive it!” “Honestly, you’ll want it if you drive it!” Yea, whatever. Just give me the keys and I’ll sit and giggle at the lunacy of those fools parting with hard earned cash to change out of their perfectly good cars for the “Oooh, Must have, blah, blah, blah….touch-screen blah…..DFI blah blah……..low emissi-BLAH BLAH” car………..
Oh Crap!
It’s quite good this………..
Crap! Why couldn’t they have just left it like it was, paint it a different colour, call it “NEW! Special! Improved!” like every other low-ballin’ company does? No they have to go and screw with that good ol’ proven formula and actually make something already way and above the average, even better! Those lowlife scum…….
That engine is a gem. So free of inertia, it feels like it could rev to the moon and back, and so smooth that the old unit feels like something out of a Massey Ferguson by comparison. And a noise from the new exhaust that actually sounds like a “real” Porsche. And brakes with bite and power that make you wonder how the hell you kept yourself out of the greenery for the last 3 years without them! There is much to love about this new car. Yet more importantly all the things you loved about the old car are still there in abundance. The poise. The balance. The mesmeric damping (BTW, just how the hell do Porsche manage to judge their damping so perfectly when every other car manufacturer on the planet seem to suck so much at it?). The effortless direction changes. The accuracy of the steering. The feel of the car chinking and tires flexing and compressing and rebounding and digging for grip. Everything that made the first car so special is there, magnified, and then complemented, by the addition of things that you never even knew were missing or lacking in the old car. Things that only go to enhance the experience of driving one of these cars in the manner in which it was originally conceived, designed and engineered.
But. The BIG but! Thirty grand better? The list of what you get for 30k is pretty big. Warranty, more reliable engine, with more power, better (and new) brakes, no miles on the clock, shiny paintwork, new tyres, blah blah blah. But, still, does that add up to Thirty thousand pounds? Yesterday it did. Today, maybe not so. Tomorrow? Who knows. I sure as hell don’t………..What to do? What to do?
JackWood
April 1, 2009Cayman S – The Cost Of Change
It’s a real dilemma. What to do? What to do?
There I was, sat comfortable with the though that no matter what had been written from the first drive reports, the Gen2 Cayman S could not possibly be £30k worth of capital or finance better than my current Gen 1 Cayman S. A Cayman that I had covered forty eight thousand glorious miles in over the last three and a half years. No way could the Gen2 car be so much better that it would persuade me that spending a further £30k as the Cost To Change up to it would be anything other than moronic.
You see, my trusty Dec 05, 55-reg Cayman S has been one of those defining cars for me. It’s defined my appreciation for vehicle dynamics to a degree that I had previously not thought possible. It has defined the way I look at reliable performance. The way I look at everyday usability. It’s ultimately defined the way I look and judge every other car on the road and what it has to offer me. And as such it is a car that I am still driving every day after over 3 years of ownership. And that from a man who had never owned a car for longer than 18 months up to point of collecting those keys on that cold December morning.
Of course MX55 YUK didn’t stay completely standard. The day the warranty expired, a Quaife diff was fitted, and at the next available brake change, a set of Pagid pads were fitted. But bar those two minor indiscretions the car has remained standard, serviced just the twice at 20k miles a-piece and had the PS2’s replaced when needed. And that’s about it. Cheaper day-to-day performance of this level I believe is just not possible.
That is, until you start to look at what it would cost to put you back in a new car of the same spec. Until you start looking at that £30k.
OK, so some of that is down to the number of miles I’ve put on the car over it’s short life, and some may be due to the stone chips that a handful of track days a year and a couple of trans-alps crossings might have added to the nose. But it’s still 30 grand that would need to be found to put me behind the wheel of a similar specced car. It seems like a big ask.
But then the inevitable happens. An invitation so spend some time in the new car. “Just don’t drive it!” “Honestly, you’ll want it if you drive it!” Yea, whatever. Just give me the keys and I’ll sit and giggle at the lunacy of those fools parting with hard earned cash to change out of their perfectly good cars for the “Oooh, Must have, blah, blah, blah….touch-screen blah…..DFI blah blah……..low emissi-BLAH BLAH” car………..
Oh Crap!
It’s quite good this………..
Crap! Why couldn’t they have just left it like it was, paint it a different colour, call it “NEW! Special! Improved!” like every other low-ballin’ company does? No they have to go and screw with that good ol’ proven formula and actually make something already way and above the average, even better! Those lowlife scum…….
That engine is a gem. So free of inertia, it feels like it could rev to the moon and back, and so smooth that the old unit feels like something out of a Massey Ferguson by comparison. And a noise from the new exhaust that actually sounds like a “real” Porsche. And brakes with bite and power that make you wonder how the hell you kept yourself out of the greenery for the last 3 years without them! There is much to love about this new car. Yet more importantly all the things you loved about the old car are still there in abundance. The poise. The balance. The mesmeric damping (BTW, just how the hell do Porsche manage to judge their damping so perfectly when every other car manufacturer on the planet seem to suck so much at it?). The effortless direction changes. The accuracy of the steering. The feel of the car chinking and tires flexing and compressing and rebounding and digging for grip. Everything that made the first car so special is there, magnified, and then complemented, by the addition of things that you never even knew were missing or lacking in the old car. Things that only go to enhance the experience of driving one of these cars in the manner in which it was originally conceived, designed and engineered.
But. The BIG but! Thirty grand better? The list of what you get for 30k is pretty big. Warranty, more reliable engine, with more power, better (and new) brakes, no miles on the clock, shiny paintwork, new tyres, blah blah blah. But, still, does that add up to Thirty thousand pounds? Yesterday it did. Today, maybe not so. Tomorrow? Who knows. I sure as hell don’t………..What to do? What to do?
judah777
April 2, 2009@JackWood -
Hey Jack,
Did you get some time behind the wheel of the Nissan 370Z ?, if so what do you think of it ?
Also, if you were tempted into a new Cayman S, how would you spec it ?…..especially now that Porsche offers a factory fit LSD
judah777
April 2, 2009@JackWood -
Hey Jack,
Did you get some time behind the wheel of the Nissan 370Z ?, if so what do you think of it ?
Also, if you were tempted into a new Cayman S, how would you spec it ?…..especially now that Porsche offers a factory fit LSD
JackWood
April 2, 2009Only got a small amount of time in the 370Z, and they were not at full chat. After the Cayman, the interior of the 370Z was like sensory overload! Just too much going on for my liking. Too many dials and buttons. All I want to do is drive! Strangly the only thing I wanted to know, I couldn’t find. And that was whether the Sport button was engaged. No indicator for it, and not even back-lit, that I could see. Rather strange.
The auto-blip was just wierd. Kept thinking I had done something wrong, or hit the throttle instead of the brake as I was slowing down. I’m sure you’d get used to it quickly, but as a jump-in-and-drive experiment it was very bizaar.
As for a Gen 2 spec:
Standard 18s (or my Black Gen1 18s with the new tires off the new gen 2
)
Diff (obviously)
PASM
Sport Chrono
Thicker Sports Steering Wheel
Auto Aircon
Soundpack Plus
Sports Seats
In either Plain Black or White.
Maybe the sports exhaust.
Total came to about £47k on the configurator.
No matter how good the new Nav is, it ain’t worth £1,900 in my book.
And that is it. I have lived with the Gen 1 car for 3 1/2 years and it doesn’t need any more frills. At least not at the price Porsche like to charge for them
A map and a hand full of CDs and my phones OEM wired hands-free will do for me, and the 3 grand I save can go on fuel, rubber, and track days 
JackWood
April 2, 2009Only got a small amount of time in the 370Z, and they were not at full chat. After the Cayman, the interior of the 370Z was like sensory overload! Just too much going on for my liking. Too many dials and buttons. All I want to do is drive! Strangly the only thing I wanted to know, I couldn’t find. And that was whether the Sport button was engaged. No indicator for it, and not even back-lit, that I could see. Rather strange.
The auto-blip was just wierd. Kept thinking I had done something wrong, or hit the throttle instead of the brake as I was slowing down. I’m sure you’d get used to it quickly, but as a jump-in-and-drive experiment it was very bizaar.
As for a Gen 2 spec:
Standard 18s (or my Black Gen1 18s with the new tires off the new gen 2
)
Diff (obviously)
PASM
Sport Chrono
Thicker Sports Steering Wheel
Auto Aircon
Soundpack Plus
Sports Seats
In either Plain Black or White.
Maybe the sports exhaust.
Total came to about £47k on the configurator.
No matter how good the new Nav is, it ain’t worth £1,900 in my book.
And that is it. I have lived with the Gen 1 car for 3 1/2 years and it doesn’t need any more frills. At least not at the price Porsche like to charge for them
A map and a hand full of CDs and my phones OEM wired hands-free will do for me, and the 3 grand I save can go on fuel, rubber, and track days 
judah777
April 4, 2009@JackWood -
So are you seriously thinking about getting a new Cayman S and if so how much would you want for your Gen1 car ?
Also, can you give us some more info on servicing costs for your Gen1 car; just two services after 48K miles is amazing.
Did you have any troubles, mechanical or electrical ?
What were servicing costs and fuel costs like ?
judah777
April 4, 2009@JackWood -
So are you seriously thinking about getting a new Cayman S and if so how much would you want for your Gen1 car ?
Also, can you give us some more info on servicing costs for your Gen1 car; just two services after 48K miles is amazing.
Did you have any troubles, mechanical or electrical ?
What were servicing costs and fuel costs like ?
Jack Wood
April 5, 2009Current prices:
£438 – First Service
£577 – Second service
20k mile/2 year intervals
I’m sure both of those prices are more than I paid, and I’m sure an Indy would be much cheaper. But that is the price of having those OPC stamps!
On top of that the Brake fluid needs doing every 2 years, but I do it more often than that as I track the car a couple of times a year, so that costs probably £60-£70 per year done at an Indy.
Brakes: My front disks need doing for the 2nd time (this will be the 3rd set from new), so they are lasting 24-25k miles per pair and cost about £200 per pair. The rears are lasting about 35k per pair. The pads I replace as a complete set, and they are lasting about 2 sets of pads per pair of front disks, but I never let them get down to minimum thickness. So this will be my 5th complete set of pads, and they have cost me £300 for a set of Pagid Blues. OEM would be cheaper, but the Pagids are much better. If I’m just replacing the pads, I do it myself. It’s very very easy. If the disks are getting changed, I have a guy who does it for £50. I supply the parts, and he just changes them.
Rubber: I only every fit Michelin PS2 N-rated tires. The rears last between 14-16k and cost about £295 each, and the fronts are lasting 22-24K and cost about £235 each. However, there is a cheaper and better way to do this. Buy used wheel sets off Ebay!! The black wheels cost me £350 for the full set and they had part worn PS2s on them that will do probably 6k miles. And I got a spare set of alloys for free!! A brand new set of take-off wheels and tyres for a Cayman normally go for around £1000. Bit a of a bargain
Apart from that the only other work I have needed has been a N/S radiator fan, about £140 and in the last year I have had all 6 ignition coils replaced. Total for all of them was about £230. I have not renewed the warrenty the last 2 years, so the last 2 items have come out of my “Self Warrenty” policy fund
Which means the fun is about £1700 in profit so far 
Fuel: my average is coming out about 21-22mpg for my daily commute and “fun” driving. If I am on a trip (like the one down to Paris for this test) then it was averaging very high 20′s (27-29mpg).
As for am I selling? I don’t think so. Not this year. I think I might wait and see if the Cayman Club Sport materialises……………………
Jack Wood
April 5, 2009Current prices:
£438 – First Service
£577 – Second service
20k mile/2 year intervals
I’m sure both of those prices are more than I paid, and I’m sure an Indy would be much cheaper. But that is the price of having those OPC stamps!
On top of that the Brake fluid needs doing every 2 years, but I do it more often than that as I track the car a couple of times a year, so that costs probably £60-£70 per year done at an Indy.
Brakes: My front disks need doing for the 2nd time (this will be the 3rd set from new), so they are lasting 24-25k miles per pair and cost about £200 per pair. The rears are lasting about 35k per pair. The pads I replace as a complete set, and they are lasting about 2 sets of pads per pair of front disks, but I never let them get down to minimum thickness. So this will be my 5th complete set of pads, and they have cost me £300 for a set of Pagid Blues. OEM would be cheaper, but the Pagids are much better. If I’m just replacing the pads, I do it myself. It’s very very easy. If the disks are getting changed, I have a guy who does it for £50. I supply the parts, and he just changes them.
Rubber: I only every fit Michelin PS2 N-rated tires. The rears last between 14-16k and cost about £295 each, and the fronts are lasting 22-24K and cost about £235 each. However, there is a cheaper and better way to do this. Buy used wheel sets off Ebay!! The black wheels cost me £350 for the full set and they had part worn PS2s on them that will do probably 6k miles. And I got a spare set of alloys for free!! A brand new set of take-off wheels and tyres for a Cayman normally go for around £1000. Bit a of a bargain
Apart from that the only other work I have needed has been a N/S radiator fan, about £140 and in the last year I have had all 6 ignition coils replaced. Total for all of them was about £230. I have not renewed the warrenty the last 2 years, so the last 2 items have come out of my “Self Warrenty” policy fund
Which means the fun is about £1700 in profit so far 
Fuel: my average is coming out about 21-22mpg for my daily commute and “fun” driving. If I am on a trip (like the one down to Paris for this test) then it was averaging very high 20′s (27-29mpg).
As for am I selling? I don’t think so. Not this year. I think I might wait and see if the Cayman Club Sport materialises……………………
dickeniffer
April 13, 2009Hi. very interesting article for me this one, as I used to work for Nissan and now work for Porsche. I have not been able to drive the new 370Z yet but have had plenty of time in the Gen II Cayman. I must admit the 2.9 Cayman is probably a more like for like comparison (price/performance) . I always used to think the 350Z was fantastic value and a great drive but having driven one recently back to back with the Gen II car it was quite an eye opener. The 350Z and I am sure the 370Z is a very exciting drive a little edgy granted but both cars are very good. Working for Porsche I will always be bias and I agree with Jack keep the spec simple and the Cayman makes for a fantastic car. Cayman Club sport on the otherhand your guess is as good as mine Porsche keep very tight lipped until the last moment. Heres hoping it does happen if the Cayman S gen II is the base Porsche can’t go wrong.
dickeniffer
April 13, 2009Hi. very interesting article for me this one, as I used to work for Nissan and now work for Porsche. I have not been able to drive the new 370Z yet but have had plenty of time in the Gen II Cayman. I must admit the 2.9 Cayman is probably a more like for like comparison (price/performance) . I always used to think the 350Z was fantastic value and a great drive but having driven one recently back to back with the Gen II car it was quite an eye opener. The 350Z and I am sure the 370Z is a very exciting drive a little edgy granted but both cars are very good. Working for Porsche I will always be bias and I agree with Jack keep the spec simple and the Cayman makes for a fantastic car. Cayman Club sport on the otherhand your guess is as good as mine Porsche keep very tight lipped until the last moment. Heres hoping it does happen if the Cayman S gen II is the base Porsche can’t go wrong.